Episode 1 - Stingy Jack Vs the Zombies
We explore the legend of Stingy Jack the origin of the jack o lantern. Delve into zombie filled dreams, and out Tale from beyond this episode is The Girl in the Moonlight
Transcript
Alexander Ballard 0:30
When one day before a new one begins between midnight and the first second afternoon, there exists the enigmatic hour, the impossible time with all is possible. Hello, and welcome traveller. We will be your guides tonight as we explore the mysterious and the macabre histories for strange and forgotten and weave a tangled web between fact and fiction. I'm your host, Alexander and Karolina. And welcome to the first of a free form podcast where we're gonna explore mysterious histories macabre facts fiction.
Yeah, we're hoping to do this by monthly so please like, share and subscribe and give us a five star review. If you like we hear commitment is hard. We'll try our hardest. So we're gonna get started tonight with a little piece of original fiction story called The girl in the moonlight. The girl in the moonlight dance slowly and methodically to the haunting music. She danced for no one but herself. Who movements would not want of seduction or less those of joy in oneness with the moment but arise between anxiety she kept hidden just below the surface, happiness and belonging she betrayed for all to see. And yet she would never let her guard down, but surely later, so go as many round who did
know the girl in the moonlight was alone in a crowd of friends who address silken white contrast to the rest, giving her transcendent and ethereal quality. It was if the night had been created for her and her alone, she died the community and its acceptance for all that was unique and individual. Become the morning light. There was nothing left but bendings of this evening. The night people the dwellers in the dark, the parts of the absurd and tragic would all be turned Wednesday game fragile connections that never lasted. Among the stones. The girl in the moonlight letter hands trace the outlines of the markers the bones of the dead resting deep below, dates and epitaphs the only legacy of the forgotten their names like dust in the wind and their voices silent memories long forgotten, if remembered at all. What better place to celebrate and embrace the music of the darkness than this empty place filled with nothing but sadness when they were gone when she has gone.
Soon the music and lights attract an altogether different queen to the festivities. And then the girl in the moonlight draws in on itself back to the safety of her.
There she has room to move and dance and the relative safety depose her as the others joined the dance. The night people show little reaction as the others take their place, filling in any space joining all the proceeds. So move like predators I think for the week amongst the dancers. see only the shallow exterior is attracting like magpie to the surface beauty driven by hunger lost.
The music quickens the song changes and with it the new comers begin to descend on those they desire.
The girl on the moon light shines brighter, more beautiful than any of the others but she hopes the light will go on notice.
And slide sensuously a black clad size teasing and playful bras fail they contain by fabric bouncing between stoking fires of lust and promise of so much more. As the night people in the new convinced mix and share the moment the music obscures all sound and moves all pretense the night the instant it's about nothing else but lust, hunger and setting desires. Like a sender of sound things out in the light vanish in an instant. All but the girl in the moonlight. She still dances alone and unafraid forms in the dark, contort and twist mouths descending and hands pulling bodies close. If the music abated for even a moment be able to hear this body of death going on all the
screams and pain the sound of teeth and claws tearing the flesh. off center straight and normality shed to embrace the animalistic urges for this one night. The smell of sex and violence permeates everything. Blood spray wildly. trail across the white smoke and dress
as a song after song
lays the body to begin to retake their former shapes. As the light we Kindles the night people bask in the afterglow, blood smear faces intended close. Some still intended embraces of blows but soon they begin to slip away the surest sign of the coming of
the last of the people like people
went to the K as the morning sun shines on the curve she smiles like an angel draws me to her like encouraged in this instance she turned and I almost love myself leave she sees does not smile is never for me she vanishes with a light where I know life isn't open the full moon returns so she and the other night people that girl in the moonlight she haunts me as I haunt this place the torture day is locked here but it filled with nothing but despair for one day she will not return I will call unless theory like systems track by chains I forged myself I will give anything just to feel the touch or handle mine. I have nothing to get a plan but a memory of since the weather stone My name engraved on it where she dances all that means who I was the girl in the moonlight she dances but not for me.
Karolina 6:23
That's really sweet.
I guess she's not dancing during COVID
Alexander Ballard 6:32
Probably not. No, no.
COVID Bass cemetery parties, I guess.
Karolina 6:40
I guess not dancing is not allowed anymore. We're living through
Alexander Ballard 6:45
this.
Yeah, no dancing. No fun. No laughter
Karolina 6:50
thinking and all those people that like being close.
Alexander Ballard 6:55
Yeah, there's nothing there's no social distancing in this event. I'll be honest,
Karolina 6:58
definitely no social distance except for the girl. She did. Well, she
Alexander Ballard 7:03
did she did and the viewer the ghosts, well, I guess I can't believe social distance very much as a ghost.
Karolina 7:09
No, no, but
it's okay. Because you're also not contagious as a ghost. So I think it's okay.
Yeah, like it's okay to not socially distance if you're,
you know, a phantom of some sort.
Alexander Ballard 7:18
Yeah, it's sort of a sad voyeuristic ghost if anything, you know?
Karolina 7:22
Yeah, I don't know what kind of a cool ghost he gets to like experience the life but not actually, if you're getting infected. So good on him.
Alexander Ballard 7:32
We all ghosts in our own way. And especially in this COVID day and age. It
Karolina 7:36
feels like we're not real.
Alexander Ballard 7:40
The endless torment that is COVID
Alright, so the topic tonight that we will be discussing is a little bit of October festivities. So we're gonna dip into an old Irish folk tale the tale of stingy jack. Now stingy jack as the story goes. So from a few hundred years ago, various variations that you'll find throughout Ireland and Scotland and parts of Europe, mainly in Britain. But stingy jack is a drunkard, awake, a liar and a con man. He's an all around scoundrel, who made his way through the world this evening and taking advantage of people. One night, the devil having heard of Jack's terrible reputation, the science to see if there's any truth to it, see if this man is as bad as he claims to be. So the devil goes out to find jack and where does he find him? But one of the local pups there jack is he's drinking and the devil sits down to join him. sees Jack's a wicked man and says I'm going to take you to hell jack being true to himself to says, You know what, if I'm going to go to hell, why not? Why don't I? Why don't we have a few drinks First, let us in vibe one last time before I have to spend eternity in hell. That's fair. So they share a few drinks. Towards the end of the night. JACK turns the devil and says if you got any money to pay the bill, the devil is taken back. I have no money. I didn't think about that sort of thing. So jack says Tell you what. We'll have a bit of a laugh on the bartender turned into a coin. I'll use that to pay and then when you transform back to normal and gone that bartender we have the money. The devil agrees. He says I like to take a joke on as much as next person to turn into a coin jackpot some in his pocket where he has a silver cross. The devil is trapped in the safe one bitcoin power that God vending from switching back to spoil myself. So jack and the devil strike a bargain Jack's tells the devil I will let you go free. But you can't take my soul for 10 years. The devil desperate to get free luck. agrees so they go their separate ways jack continues to live his life, same ways always done 10 years pass. jack is best against an apple tree. On the very moment the deal expires, the devil returns. He says this time jack can take you to hell immediately, jack says, convinces the devil one last time you know what? I'm gonna go to hell. Why not torment me by giving me an apple from that tree? You know, of one apple left and that's the last human food. Remember the devil's like? Sure. Why
Karolina 10:37
not? Oh my God, this doubles a fool.
Alexander Ballard 10:40
The devil climbs a tree. But this is classic, you know, old school lecture to the devil is a very trusting sort.
Karolina 10:50
Obviously, yes. Still has always been very trusting.
Alexander Ballard 10:54
So the devil climbs the tree and the moment he's up the tree, jack carves across across its bait the bark. The devil is trapped in the tree. And so they strike another bargain, but this time, jack being clever, makes the devil promise to never take his soul. Hmm.
Karolina 11:11
Is that a bargain?
Alexander Ballard 11:12
The devil can go free but the devil can never take jack. So devil trapped in the tree.
agrees he says, All right, sure.
So they go their separate ways. Many years past jack finally dies his soul, which in the Legends is called flaky. goes up to heaven. See St. Peter at the pearly gates. And St. Peter says, For your lifetime of sin and wicked DRI You are not allowed into heaven. So the jack goes down to hell. finds the gates barred, and the devil ever true to his word says I will never take your soul. You may never come into hell.
Karolina 11:52
Haha.
Alexander Ballard 11:54
Yeah. And so he sends jack back into the world with just a lump of coal to guide his way. So jack carves a turn up into a lantern, places the coal in there and walks the earth through darkness and light. Never getting to heaven never getting to hell. until the end of time.
Karolina 12:14
That sounds terrible. I guess he should have he should have thought that out. Hmm. Just because you can't go to hell does not mean that you can go to heaven. And clearly, since he met the devil, I guess hell exists. So, obviously, there would be heaven. You didn't think that through? I
Alexander Ballard 12:33
know. I guess it wasn't often don't you know? You know, very, and this is sort of, I guess, part of the familiar lore of you have a lot of these, you know, person versus the devil. The devil is ever true to the word you know, and the person either outsmarts the devil, you know,
Karolina 12:50
like the devil always wins in some
way. Even though the devil and a lot of these stories does not seem the cleverest of fellows. In the end, the devil usually wins by default, I guess.
Alexander Ballard 13:04
Yeah, I guess the devil eventually wins because jack doesn't get to go to heaven. He doesn't get to go to hell. He just
Karolina 13:10
gets stuck in limbo.
Alexander Ballard 13:12
Yeah, doomed to walk his way through eternity. You know, and there's a similar legends through shop. Sure. And Scotland about this in some places. He's called will and some places called jack and Tony's a blacksmith. And there's a few variations but it seems to be the origin of you know, the legend behind the jack o' lantern. You know, jack o' lantern is where his name comes from. And in Cornish folklore, there is a character called Joan Awad, who is the queen of the Pixies who was a coinage term for a torch. And her concert or husband is jack o' Lantern, a fellow Pixie. And I even found out I managed to find a poem about them. It's like jack o' lantern Joe in the water. They tickled the maid and made him mad. Like my way home, the weather's bad, you know? So, Pixies is part of you know, British folklore with like, tiny little mischievious creatures,
Karolina 14:15
like little fairies,
Alexander Ballard 14:16
kind of like fairies. You know, they were very childlike. They enjoyed drinking and dancing, but they were also good luck and also Mysterious, mysterious, you know, there's other parts of them there's you know, they're in Ireland, they would call the ace, a sheet and Scotland Sif, there's knockers and gnomes, and fairies and red caps and all sorts of folklore around these tiny folks, you know, but they're always mischievious and sometimes cruel, sometimes kind, you know? Mm hmm. And one type of one that quite that follows in with the jack o' lantern myth is the type called the will of the Wisp. So, Willow the wisps are ghostly lights that hover above the ground at night. Especially around bogs and marshes these unearthly lights a paradoxically seen through mythology as both being symbols of hope but also misleading and luring travelers off the beaten path their death.
Karolina 15:12
I'm pretty sure Diablo two had had a similar character
amongst it's a
it's a Yeah, I'm pretty sure dlsu had one of these will of the wisps. Okay as are no it wasn't Diablo two It was one of the other RPGs I played definitely had this as as some sort of character that you had to like beat to get to a lighthouse and and
Alexander Ballard 15:43
oh you thinking of
Karolina 15:45
Oh God Is it is it torch light was a torch light Path of Exile Path of Exile Path of Exile definitely had one of these creepy little buggers they were so hard to kill
Alexander Ballard 15:57
yeah that well the way Louis is been it's all over literature it's all of them arts and as many as video games like you said that have had them in there. You know, they might have been in Diablo you know, the legend exists across the world, you know from the St. Louis lights in Saskatchewan, to the Naga fireballs of Thailand. And the technical term for them if you want to go with the scientific explanation, yes, it is Ignis fattest, which literally means foolish flame. You know, and there's some natural explanations you know, swamp casts atmospheric things but it's not pay attention that well we care but it's the folklore the mythology. The truth the truth. Yeah. The hidden truth. Right this scientists don't want you to know
Karolina 16:52
we believe in science.
Alexander Ballard 16:54
Yes, science is good. Well, you mask
Karolina 16:57
please wear your mask.
Alexander Ballard 17:02
So, again, stingy jack is also heavily tied into this as is you know, they are well as these come time so we'll have the whisper. Whisper is actually a name for a torch. Okay. So you know, jack of the toys, jack of the lantern. They all sort of tie in. And you know, there are numerous tales across Britain about what these will do is for like, generally, a traveler is walking home alone at night and they see the glowing light in the distance. Sometimes there's a small codebase more fingers sometimes just a light. And the traveler comes mesmerized. They're entranced by the light losing track of their surroundings, they're compelled to follow it into the darkness of the night. they wander for miles upon miles to unfamiliar terrain, away from all the well tread paths eventually traveled tired and lost, awakened from the stupor at the edge of a precipice or cliff. The light dangling in the distance just above vanishes completely. For the malicious gleeful laugh. The traveler finds themselves lost alone, nearly dead one step from death.
Karolina 18:15
Next time
that I'm late coming home from the pub, I'm definitely going to tell my partner that I followed up will have the list. Oh, no. And I found myself last night. Jake supposed to do. Right? You see, like, follow it?
Alexander Ballard 18:30
Yeah, you walk into the vault.
Karolina 18:33
So my fault I'm like,
Alexander Ballard 18:34
Yeah, those foolish travelers, you know,
Karolina 18:37
just a foolish traveler has nothing to do with staying at a pub for too long. Yeah.
Alexander Ballard 18:43
So in Bangladesh, the will of the wisps are called layers. And these are considered the ghosts of dead fishermen. And much like the European one, these are seen as a sign of danger or help, you know, these ghost fishermen they lay us either want to warn you of danger, or drown you in the marshes. So you can meet a similar fate as them. I found another reference to something in Japan called the hit Adama, which literally are bowls, shapes of the human soul that supposedly hovered above graves, you know,
Karolina 19:22
oh, man, this sounds terrifying. But I think I feel like
all of these creatures are just dry you away
from going home on time.
Alexander Ballard 19:31
Mmm, yeah. Thank you boss.
where it gets a little more interesting is I'm in Northern Europe. And in Ireland, you also have a similar thing, where there are some wisps that don't wander. There's some wisps that are stationary. They hover over locations and those locations are thought to be the locate mark the locations of buried or lost treasure. They said to mark hidden treasure either buried by fairies. You No hidden gold. You might have heard of things called leprechauns and the pot of gold. I think
Karolina 20:05
there may be a movie franchise
Alexander Ballard 20:05
they might have been offended. I think they probably made seven or eight movies from the leprechaun franchise. Just
Karolina 20:11
a few. You know,
Alexander Ballard 20:13
once he went back to the hood and then back to space, it probably wasn't a lot for the leprechaun to do.
Karolina 20:18
He went to space.
Good cinema, guys.
Alexander Ballard 20:22
Oh, yeah. Wally. So, if you're looking for something to do for two days watch the leprechaun franchise.
Karolina 20:31
It's me. It's Halloween. It's
creepy, I guess.
Alexander Ballard 20:37
Yeah. Can't be. It's Yeah. It looks like 90s creepy.
Karolina 20:43
Yes,
yes. Okay, just leave it for March then.
The third wave.
Alexander Ballard 20:50
The third wave Yeah.
Um, so these hidden lost treasures, you know, one of the myths around that sometimes they would appear all the time, but some would only be revealed on one night of the year, so there might be only one day of the year with a treasure was hidden, and you had until morning to dig it up. These treasures are often generally buried or hidden by magic or trickery. One way of revealing and getting access to the treasure was something called a hand of glory. Which is a piece of arcane artifact, which is the preserved left hand of a Hanged Man carrying a candle made of the fat and hair the Hanged Man.
Karolina 21:37
That's very specific.
Alexander Ballard 21:38
Oh, yeah, there's a whole ritual and intention isn't to create a hand of glory. But supposedly, if you had a hand of glory, it would shine a light that only the holder could see. And open any luck.
Karolina 21:49
So would you actually have to touch the
Alexander Ballard 21:50
hand you would carry like a candle, you would hold the hand carrying the candle and it would light your way. But no one but you acquainted with the legends in the midst of mythology on hands of glory would be able to see it. You would have light but no one else would have light.
Karolina 22:05
So is it like mummy shriveled?
Alexander Ballard 22:06
Yeah, like a petrified and preserved hand. Oh, you're not petrified, more preserved and
Karolina 22:13
dry? Paper dried
Alexander Ballard 22:15
and pickled?
Karolina 22:16
Ah, yeah, just like my grandfather.
Alexander Ballard 22:20
He was often pickled
polish.
Yeah, and I suppose you know, that kind of leads back to the popular story of the jack o' lantern. You know? You know the tradition of carving pumpkins or if they originally were turnips, and rutabagas they became pumpkins once the new world was explored, and pumpkin is discovered for the first time. In fact, one of the oldest records I could find amusing pumpkins comes from a story from 1820 you may have heard of it called The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Oh no one ever heard of as a pumpkin head or in the original version apparently doesn't actually have a head of up carved pumpkin is just the remnant or a pumpkin or found next to a kebab crane stuff who was vanishes in the morning. Yeah, so the original story you don't know what happens to it? Why is he dead? Is he gone? Is he murdered by his rival? Did he just fled into the night? But yeah, like the tradition dates back obviously. It's tied into the Celtic tradition festival of Sam hain late which is October 31.
Halloween
it is Halloween and the day after of course is all souls night and Christianity you know the two times that of very rare souls are supposed to be much more prevalent and have greater access to Earth
Karolina 23:49
is it All Saints Day? And then all souls night is the second
let's get confused with those two.
Alexander Ballard 23:56
It's good question. I thought it was old. All Souls night was the first
Karolina 24:00
it's interesting because November 1 in in the Polish Roman Catholic tradition and is is actually a holiday and everybody it's this bizarre thing. Everybody goes to the cemetery
obviously not this year, but
unless you're socially distancing, everybody goes
to the cemetery there's there's people outside selling flowers and selling candles and all the families go and everybody lights
candles and brings flowers, the grace okay.
And the cemeteries are all lit up hmm with with fresh candles and it just looks it looks alive. So it's it's a such it's a sad holiday in Poland on November 1, so that everybody can go out and visit their dearly departed.
Alexander Ballard 24:49
Yeah,
but it isn't. I know it's not really celebrated as much as some of the others but it is an important night in the the Catholic canon of holidays, you know? You know, just the idea of you honor the dead and use you know, the souls are closest to the earthly realm you know, much like it is and on Sam a night where like spirits and icy connait access the world you know, you know, in some ways you know, purgatory is offs in a lot of mythology is filled with the unbaptized you know, those people who couldn't get into heaven, it couldn't get into hell, doomed to walk the earth so people one of the reason people in Ireland would carve pumpkins or jack o' lantern was to ward off, you know, souls it would cause would cause the family troubles they would put them as guardians around the home as a form of apo tropic magic. So apotropaic magic is it's a kind of magic, it's all about warding against evil spirits turning away harmful influences, like the evil eye, as well as attracting Good luck. So you know, like, knocking on the word after you say something is a form of a tropic magic, or like putting a jack o' lantern to scare away evil spirits or burning Sage you know, these things that are ways of warding off dark spirits and arm you know, and there's a lot of lower around carving of effigies or grotesques. Like there's a lot of lore on good tasks. For instance, part of the reason they carve these grotesque statues and pumpkins and other shapes and other things was to ward off evil spirits. There's people in Britain who add special kinds of jugs jugs would be you know, keep my keep away the ghosts and the witches.
Karolina 26:30
I'm really happy that we kept to our pagan ways.
As much as all of these
I guess, I nationalities and tried to turn away in turn towards Christianity, we definitely did keep a lot of pagan traditions alive.
Alexander Ballard 26:52
Yeah, and it's interesting the mixture of like blending, like I found one story about jack o' lanterns from Portugal, which is all about their they carved this thing called Coco. Which, you know, it comes from coconut, but it means scholar head and there's even a boogie man like feature called basically literally translate to the coconut man or woman
Karolina 27:16
as delicious.
Alexander Ballard 27:18
And but they're they would carve pumpkins into vicious skull like creatures and then parade them around on pikes in parts of Portugal is a throwback to some old traditions, you know?
Karolina 27:34
Yes, we conquered, we conquered.
Alexander Ballard 27:39
Well, I think that covers basically my research onto jack o' lanterns and stingy jack in the myths around them.
Karolina 27:49
So this is the part where we talk about our dreams, and sometimes our nightmares. So I tend to dream a lot about zombies. And I think a lot of us probably dream about zombies, something chasing you something that's relentless. Something that's just always there and, and anxiety inducing. So for me, that translates into zombies. So last night, as most nights, I'm being chased by zombies, I'm hiding in a closet. I'm trying to kill a few of them. I'm strategizing and planning with whoever's around me. And we've killed a few of them, we've got a bard inside, we've applied to get out. And then I start to feel a little bit of tension around my jaw, my upper jaw. So my maxilla if anybody knows your mandible, and maxilla, so your your upper teeth,
and I start to feel a lot of pressure.
And as I'm trying to plan to, to get past the zombies, it just starts to construct and construct and construct and construct. And then I realized there's a snake, and it's wrapped around my my upper teeth, and it's squeezing tight. And then I realized it's alive. So as I'm trying to fight the zombies, I'm also trying to get myself free of the snake and not get bitten. And I'm wondering, why is this extra little thing, just just just, like thrown at me while I'm trying to survive the zombie apocalypse. And then I wake up, and I realize it's the first night that I've worn my mouth guard. So hopefully your dreams were better than mine last night.
Alexander Ballard 29:38
The zombie dream is obviously you know, quite a common dream. You know, it's that relentless fear isn't it? You know, like this nature upturn. You know, this plague personified, you know, traditionally in viruses, you know, you know, there's something unseen hidden people dropping dead without noticing the zombie cells. You can see them coming. The horde
Karolina 29:59
knows Yeah, I mean, zombies usually coming hordes, but I feel like with with a lot of zombie movies, you can see them coming. Right? And they're slow, really like how are we not able to? To destroy them? Right? They're coming in slowly, here's one or two, there is sort of like, except for 28 days later where they're running at you. But they're sort of slowly walking towards you and Shaun of the Dead style. And you hit them over the head, and you kill them. And there's another one you kill. And then there's another one you kill them. But I feel like, with enough of them, they overpower No, no matter how slowly they're, they're lumbering over to you.
They're just just sheer force,
Alexander Ballard 30:52
less like the relentlessness of the zombie idea, you know, you have some sure you have some ideas. We're like, the zombie jumpscare with the zombies hidden in the closet or in the fridge for some reason, you know, and the zombie jumps out and attacks the person. Mm hmm. We also have a lot of times, but you know, you hit the zombie in the head, and it keeps coming. You shoot the zombie? It keeps coming. You cut off one zombies head, there's still 50 more following it down the street, you know?
Karolina 31:16
Right. Right. But but was our human intellect? Generally, I would, I would say that most
of us would probably be able to
somehow think doesn't be right, because they don't have any brains. So they can't think so they can only come at you in numbers. But they can't plan.
Alexander Ballard 31:44
Yeah, like, I guess the idea of like, you could hide on the second floor in the
Karolina 31:49
array, but like, But enough of them will come around that they're going to start climbing over each other to get
Alexander Ballard 31:56
Yeah, I guess it depends, like you have some this, like, trend to Busan did this really well, where they had the Korean film, you haven't seen it? definitely watch it, it's really good. Where the zombies sort of like ball up, and you have these like, wave almost of corpses, you know, where the legs sort of splash against count obstacles, and just some of them make it over? And some of them just, you know, hit the wall, you know?
Karolina 32:22
Yeah, and doesn't matter, because some of them do make it over. And that's enough to get more humans infected. It's a terrifying movie, actually, that that movie had me sort of on edge the entire time. But it was this it was this nice little slow burn edge where where you're never you're never okay. You're never comfortable.
Alexander Ballard 32:47
Yeah, well, it was one of those great films because most of it takes place in a very tight contained it literally on a train. So you have scenes where like, there's six zombies in the car in front of me and I need to get through this car, you know, and all I've got it whatever stuff I happen to have with me on the train, you know, so I
Karolina 33:02
are no actual,
Alexander Ballard 33:05
there's no place to run a place to hide. There's no weapons. And then other times you have slower scenes, you know, where they stop at a station and you know, things happen.
Karolina 33:16
Yeah, that was that was a really, really good movie. I felt like I was engaged the entire time. And I think I saw everybody else around me remember the days of cinema. I used to be able to go to a movie theater and watch a movie. And there were other people watching the movie didn't matter if they sat next to you. It was one of those experiences.
Alexander Ballard 33:39
Oftentimes, lots of strangers would sit next to the cinema.
Karolina 33:42
Oftentimes, yeah, didn't like about them. Can't do it now. So kind of
miss it.
Alexander Ballard 33:48
Yeah, 20% I think is a really good zombie film. Like, you talk about the zombies been nice minus humans. I still remember that. That terrible. I don't know knighted Living Dead 12 or eight or nine, whichever one. There was one where they zombies used machine guns and rode motorcycles. I can't remember which one it was. But I'm sure the audience knows what I'm talking about. You know,
Karolina 34:14
I can't remember what it was called. But yes, yeah, they just want a home. Right? Just like everybody else. I forget what the line was at the end. But it was so stupid. Yes, the zombies learn to use machine guns they learn to fight back because all they want to do survive just like all the humans,
Alexander Ballard 34:32
or the show. We used to love izombie where we have this sort of like modern day romance, you know, young adult style show where like the little the character, the main character's name is live more. And she lives more after she becomes a zombie.
Karolina 34:53
She absolutely does. Yes, yes. And what was that? What was that
organization called?
Alexander Ballard 34:59
Oh mean? That paramilitary group. Yeah, Cold War graves. So
Karolina 35:02
great. Yes. That's
great, great show.
Alexander Ballard 35:07
It's much better than it sounds. Honestly.
Yes.
Karolina 35:13
That's what they do.
Alexander Ballard 35:16
Yeah.
Karolina 35:19
They're human.
Alexander Ballard 35:22
Mostly some of it. Spoiler alert.
All right, humans just kind of zombie. Now,
Karolina 35:34
yeah, I feel okay, so we're talking about
zombies. When you talk about zombies being like allegory, we can talk about zombies being zombies means so many things. And obviously, these days, a zombie apocalypse is what most of us wish we were living through. Okay, maybe not. But it might complicate our current pandemic situation
Alexander Ballard 36:03
now with the mask helped me avoid the zombie apocalypse.
Karolina 36:06
I feel like if a zombie spat on you, if they were wearing a mask, then you'd be fine.
Alexander Ballard 36:12
Okay, I've done my hand sanitizer, obviously,
Karolina 36:15
obviously. So, so you're
Alexander Ballard 36:16
gonna want that in the zombie apocalypse.
Karolina 36:19
Spray this off?
Make sure you have a squeeze bottle.
Um, yeah. So you're
Alexander Ballard 36:30
very much the sci fi zombie. You know, the virus zombie versus the the more mystical Voodoo style zombie?
Karolina 36:39
Great. Yes. Definitely more the sci fi zombie. Rather than the mystical Voodoo zombie. So, so Miss kobudo zombie. I just remember, Wade Davis and his serpent and the rainbow book that got turned into a terrible
Alexander Ballard 37:00
movie. Not seen it.
Karolina 37:02
Not seen it? Good. Don't watch it.
Not even sure if you should read the book. By our way, David is was his church still alive? An ethno botanist. So he went over to Haiti to try to figure out what was happening with this whole zombie phenomenon in Haiti. And kind of boiled it down to this this is this is his work.
A compound I forget what it was called, it's textured
toxin
or something. It's a para
Alexander Ballard 37:39
tetrodotoxin the blowfish stuff?
Karolina 37:41
Yeah, the blowfish stuff? Yeah, comes from a blowfish. Um, so it's a paralytic
compound.
So what was happening was, people were waking up out of their graves, so they're presumed dead. Because guess it doctors could not could not detect the heart rate cannot deduct detect a pulse. Pardon me. So doctors cannot detect a heart rate or a pulse. And we're considering these people died. And then they would be dug up a few days later. And then they would be put to work a slice, basically. And they consider themselves zombies, they were sort of so there was like a little bit of a cultural component as well, where they're being told that they're no longer alive, they're being dug up and everything. So they did not feel that they were still alive. A lot of the time it was families apparently that were doing this as a friends. So someone would upset somebody, and then they would get the shaman to determine the mental zombie, so to speak. So they would master this poison, this person would be presumed dead that would be dug up. And it would be to work.
Alexander Ballard 39:04
And I suppose the I there is a sort of idea they will if you die in any shape or form, you know, your soul is gone, you know, moved on to the afterlife. So what's left? Is this soulless by you know, right. Yeah. Not quite human anymore.
Karolina 39:19
Yes, you're right.
Yeah. So so you both saw that they weren't. They weren't themselves anymore. They were they were definitely beyond dead. So yes, they're still had moved on. But yeah, there's a lot of controversy about we James's work. And whether a lot of this information is actually factual or not. Or, or whether he may be embellished a few things.
Alexander Ballard 39:47
It's always a possibility. You know, those anthropologists?
Karolina 39:51
Nobody knows. But similar.
Yes, yes,
Alexander Ballard 39:54
ethno botanist or crypto biologists Do you know
Karolina 40:00
White Men of a Certain Age?